June 25, 2015 | Graham

Q&A mistake a category killer

By putting Zaky Mallah to air the ABC made a category mistake. They categorised an existential threat to Australia as being just an ideological disagreement.

They are not the only ones making category mistakes about terrorism and terrorist organisations, and until we sort them out our response to Islamic State, and it’s certain successors, will be ineffective.

IS is not, as the Prime Minister claims, a “death cult”. It is a quasi-state actor using an historically successful method, to build a real state, if not an empire, in Asia Minor.

For millenia bands of unprincipled men have become kings and emperors and their nobles, by brutalising their neighbours. In the first degree they do it by seizing land, raping women, and killing all the men. In the second degree they use terror and standover tactics to extort obedience and taxes without the need for genocide and direct theft.

Our upper house is named the Senate, after the upper house of the Roman legislature. When it comes to barbarism and theft IS cannot hold a candle to the Romans, yet it is from the Romans that we take much of our civilisation.

Rome shows how successful the method can be.

IS needs to be treated as the equivalent of a state, and its adherents as allies or members of a foreign power.

That moves Mallah from the status of dissident or criminal to enemy combatant at best, and traitor at worst. In this case his right to free speech is, and should be, severely curtailed.

While it is generally reasonable to represent all sides in a domestic political debate, that does not apply when the spokesman stands for a foreign power.

If it were WWII would the ABC consider it reasonable to do live crosses to the Japanese High Command to correct the record, or get the other side of the story?

In today’s confused world they just might.

It’s not that long ago that Paul McGeough from the SMH allowed himself to be used by Saddam Hussein, broadcasting live from Iraq during Operation Shock and Awe.

I was always surprised that his career survived his infamous broadcast when he claimed from Baghdad Airport that the US was lying because they weren’t at the airport.

So we’ve been making these category mistakes for a while and it’s about time they stopped. Certainly heads should roll at the ABC in a display, less brutal than IS, that this is war, and you really do have to decide which side you are on.

Posted by Graham at 8:42 am | Comments (35) |


  1. I think you’re dead right that IS needs to be treated as a proto-State.

    However, I think you’re dead wrong about Mallah and about his comments. Shooting the messenger has never been a good policy.

    He is precisely the sort of person we should be engaging with, since he is willing to do so and is clearly well placed to be informed about the mind-set of his fellow young Muslim men in the hotspot (thanks Tony) areas of Western Sydney and industrial Melbourne.

    There is nothing in it for any of us in demonising him and those like him. They are simply young men with a chip on their shoulder, not a lot different to the young men from Ireland, Serbia, Croatia, Greece, Vietnam and other parts of Europe and Asia who preceded them in those run-down industrial suburbs.

    If we want this problem to go away, then we need to give these young men some hope that their best future is in Australia and that Australia is willing to work to make that future a good one.

    Comment by Craig Minns — June 25, 2015 @ 9:57 am

  2. Graham, I think you are spot on. I don’t know where Craig Minns is coming from to say “…we need to give these young men some hope that their best future is in Australia…” If ‘these young men’ have been born here, like Blind Freddy they should be smart enough by their late teens to know that! They are also mature enough to understand (if they are truly Australians in spirit) that ANY IS association is treasonous, and they accept the clnsequences. Jack Lynch

    Comment by Jack Lynch — June 25, 2015 @ 10:23 am

  3. Hi Jack,
    The thing is that they are young people, either first or second generation Australians with a family background that includes gross oppression in their country of origin and who have experienced little in the way of acceptance from Australians, especially intolerant people like you.

    Unlike some of the earlier generations of migrants they do not have the path of low-skilled work to rise out of poverty, so they are left to sit idle and ponder the iniquities of the world (not unlike some old age pensioners). Unlike OAPs, young men are driven to want to act out when they are angry and frustrated, making them easy targets for manipulation. IS uses this very cleverly and that is why our Government is so fearful.

    The psychopathic killers that make the headlines are not the norm in these communities. The unrest is driven mostly by a desperate desire to be taken seriously.

    It is a shame that the response is to try to repress rather than to engage with these young men. It’s an even bigger shame that there are people like you, who should have the wisdom to know better, who are driving what is a short-term political response when what is needed is a proper strategic approach.

    Comment by Craig Minns — June 25, 2015 @ 11:06 am

  4. Well written. You have succinctly explained the folly of the ABC in this instance . For how much longer will the ABC be allowed to undermine the fragile unity of the country with impunity. .

    Comment by Stewart parkinson — June 25, 2015 @ 11:19 am

  5. This is certainly an instance of trial, conviction and punishment by opinion column. A person in gaol, after due process under the rule of law, may reasonably lose freedom of speech but Australia should be a place of freedom of speech, even when we disagree with the speaker. Make that: especially when we disagree with the speaker.
    If the speaker in this case seems to have broken the law, let him be tried, not banned (that was an instrument available to the government of apartheid South Africa) in order to prevent him from speaking in the first place.
    You say, “While it is generally reasonable to represent all sides in a domestic political debate, that does not apply when the spokesman stands for a foreign power.” Actually, in Australia, foreign embassies have the right of free speech. Why not? Do you imagine that the American ambassador submits drafts of speeches to the Department of Foreign Affairs and Trade for clearance?

    Comment by Ralph Seccombe — June 25, 2015 @ 6:34 pm

  6. The point that Graham and some of those submitting comments miss is that Zaky Mallah did a crime at about aged twenty and served his time.
    He may be now on an ASIO watch list but otherwise he is a free Australian citizen entitled to put a question to QandA if it is assessed as likely to cause discussion on an subject of interest.
    The attack on Mallah by Steve Ciobo MP did the MP no credit. He showed his hatred and stated that he would like to see Mallah out of Australia.
    Mallah’s second comment did his cause no good by showing flaws in his thinking and that he had about as much tolerance Ciobo.
    If parliamentarians were interested in protecting Australia from fundamentalism and maintain education as secular,as they should to maintain a cohesive society, they would not allow a foreign country (neither Saudi Arabia or the Holy See) to have any part that keeps students separate in education.

    Comment by John Turner — June 25, 2015 @ 7:53 pm

  7. Craig Minns “Unlike some of the earlier generations of migrants they do not have the path of low-skilled work to rise out of poverty”

    So why do we keep piling them in?
    Why is immigration overwhelmingly biased to Third World populations that have minimal or no education/work skills?

    They have no chance and we gain no benefit.
    So what’s the point?

    The manufacturing sector is dead, so why doesn’t our policy change to match the times?

    Comment by Shockadelic — June 25, 2015 @ 9:02 pm

  8. It’s a tough question, Shockadelic. The problem of work is one that’s going to have to be addressed for all of us within a few years. Artificial intelligence and automation is rapidly coming to the point where human workers of all kinds are hard to justify on efficiency grounds. Whether that is an opportunity to advance the dream of a paradise without burdensome toil or a nightmare of social dysfunction is a problem we have yet to address.

    The question we need to ask with respect to radical Muslim youth is “what does ISIS offer themthat Australia doesn’t”? I think the answer is straightforward: respect. They don’t offer personal wealth, and they don’t have any more work to offer than Australia, but even a scrawny, dysfunctional white kid like that silly young fella who blew himself up a few months ago can get to feel like he’s worth respecting for a while. They get to feel that they’re a valued part of something big.

    We don’t do respect very well in Australia. We are going to have to learn how and we’re going to have to work out how we can be a place that offers something big to be part of.

    Simply being another face in the crowd at Centrelink sure ain’t it.

    Comment by Craig Minns — June 26, 2015 @ 6:36 am

  9. Yes Craig Minns, machines are making the whole worker-based justification for immigration obsolete.

    Yet all major Western political parties are addicted to it and will never stop, no matter what the social or economic consequences.

    Why? The Boogeyman: Racism (or the accusation/perception of it).
    Racism is the boogeyman of the 21st century, the way witchcraft and communism were in previous ones.
    Nobody wants to be accused of it or seen supporting it.

    So honest/realistic policies are impossible while this hysteria continues.

    I don’t think it’s our responsibility to provide alienated people with a big something to be part of.

    It’s the government’s fault for introducing alien peoples/cultures that had no connection to our history/identity in the first place.

    Stop trying to fit their square pegs in our round holes.
    And do it soon.

    Comment by Shockadelic — June 26, 2015 @ 8:04 am

  10. Shockadelic, do you mind if I ask what your own background is? What is your age? What sort of work do you/did you do? What sort of ancestry do you have? That sort of thing.

    Comment by Craig Minns — June 26, 2015 @ 8:13 am

  11. I believe a little too much hysteria has entered the fray on this topic. The person in question has obviously said and done some stupid things in the past. His comments on QandA on Monday evening, particularly his second was not well thought out and did him no favours.

    However, we need to consider the bigger picture. The ABC requested he join the show and also vetted the first question, probably not the second which has drawn all the hype.

    Was the ABC at fault, probably, they should have done a little more homework.

    Additionally it should be noted the man in question had and has been advocating for more than five years on blog and website for young Muslims to steer well clear of IS and radical Muslim fundamentalist activity, this is why I suspect the ABC thought it safe to have him put forward his opinion on the show.

    As to the political hysteria following the show, well that would be par for the course and expected of the current government, particularly its “sound bite” leader Tony Abbott.

    Has Abbott forgotten it was and still is Australia’s policy decisions that tend to foment hatred of the West because of our meddling in the Middle East? Primarily US hegemonic ambitions in this region, with our complicit support has not served Australia well since 2003. Our blind following of US foreign policy has been a mistake for Australia, particularly noting the current and declining state of the ME, Vis Iraq, Syria, Libya, Yemen etc.

    Additionally our unilateral support for Israel continues to send a message to young Muslims that we fully endorse Israli actions in Gaza and the West Bank.

    The U.S. Went into Afghanistan claiming it only needed to kill the 5000 odd Taliban, has now killed 10,000 and their only remains 20,000 to kill today, Unfortunately US foreign Policy is to blame and we continue to follow it at our folly.

    The young man in question is but one of millions who see the hypocrisy of the west and the hatred they feel will remain so long as we blindly attempt to interfere in what they see as Muslim business.

    Tony Abbott loves this kind of storm, fear makes people look to a strong leader in times of danger, which is exactly what he is taking advantage of at this time.

    I would just question the motive of his outbursts and also state that Australia’s threat from IS is almost nil,

    Comment by Geoff Botting — June 26, 2015 @ 11:45 am

  12. Craig Minns, my background makes no difference to the validity or otherwise of my comments.
    They are either valid or invalid.

    The migration of millions of people from thousands of ancestries/cultures within a short time period is the most ludicrous political policy ever conceived.

    It defies all we know about human psychology and anthropology (i.e. how people *really* live).

    It is based on the meaningless assertion that we are one species (as if that means anything) and the fingers-crossed wishful thinking that somehow, magically, everything will be alright.

    Anyone who criticises or dissents is dismissed as a hatemongering Nazi, rather than a sensible concerned individual.

    This lunacy will end (not may end, will end) one of two ways.
    Passively (political policy change) or aggressively (civil war/revolution).
    Take your pick.

    Comment by Shockadelic — June 26, 2015 @ 5:14 pm

  13. So, their background matters and yours doesn’t?

    Comment by Craig Minns — June 26, 2015 @ 5:21 pm

  14. It looks to me as though you’re ashamed of your heritage, Shockadelic. Why would you not want to acknowledge the achievements of your ancestors?

    How sad.

    Comment by Craig Minns — June 26, 2015 @ 5:28 pm

  15. Craig Minns, it looks to me as though you’re an agent provocateur who I will ignore in future.

    Comment by Shockadelic — June 26, 2015 @ 5:51 pm

  16. Well, that’s your privilege, shockadelic.

    What a shame you don’t have the courage to stand up for your own “race”…

    Comment by Craig Minns — June 26, 2015 @ 6:06 pm

  17. Even from behind the veil of anonymity…

    Comment by Craig Minns — June 26, 2015 @ 6:09 pm

  18. You haven’t actually thought this through old fella, have you?

    Comment by Craig Minns — June 26, 2015 @ 6:10 pm

  19. Migration is what sent humanity from Africa to inhabit the rest of the earth, and will likely continue as an exodus to the stars; once we have mastered the now theoretical warp drive that doesn’t require the entire energy of the universe to make it work?

    Migration alone made Australia what it is today! We’re al the sons and daughters of boat people; and we all need to stand by and accept responsibility for our actions or own our own behavior. Mallah apparently says one thing on his blog and another on his tweet?

    And it’s his offensive tweets that should see him offered a one way passage to Syria. And where that sort of stone age activism would find plenty of equally inherently evil company?
    Alan B. Goulding.

    Comment by Alan B. Goulding — June 29, 2015 @ 7:42 pm

  20. Ralph Seccombe, when you are at war you don’t normally have diplomatic representation in your enemy’s country.

    Comment by Graham — June 29, 2015 @ 9:54 pm

  21. Alan B. Goulding “Migration is what sent humanity from Africa …an exodus to the stars…Migration alone made Australia what it is today!”

    Yeah, migration is great for the migrators.
    Not so great for the existing populations displaced (Neanderthals, Aborigines, Alpha Centaurians).

    Yes, it is a zero sum world of finite resources.
    Every plus has a minus.

    If immigrants gain something, we, the existing population, must lose something.
    Jobs, water, time spent in queues, space on the beach, bus seats.
    How much more do you want to lose?

    Comment by Shockadelic — June 30, 2015 @ 5:12 am

  22. Yes it was a mistake to invite this young man to speak if only to know what he really thinks and why he an his ilk need to be sent to where they feel more at home.

    Even so, I see no case for censorship I mean OLO has had its fair share of lunatic fringe opinion?

    And shockadelic, who do you think gave us the Snowy Mountains Scheme?

    Built our roads , rail and houses, harvested the sugar when we couldn’t get Aussies to do it?

    And its hardly the fault of the migrant we’re to crowded in some places while others are emptying out!
    Alan B. Goulding.

    Comment by Alan B. Goulding — June 30, 2015 @ 11:16 am

  23. Alan B. Goulding, that was then and this is now.

    The roads are paved, the pipes laid, the bridges built.
    There are no more grand projects and there won’t be any more (until after the civil war).

    Immigrants did those jobs because they required low-or-no skills, not because they required “immigrants”.

    We already have 700,000 unemployed and as already mentioned above, more and more human labour is being mechanised/automated/computerised.
    So there is absolutely NO labour-based justification for further immigration.

    And what other justification is there?
    Utopian kumbaya fairytales are not a justification for perpetual artificial population growth.

    Give me a reason, a real reason, for continuing immigration *NOW*, not in 1815 or 1915, but 2015.

    Comment by Shockadelic — June 30, 2015 @ 11:56 am

  24. Hi shocka and thanks for the email.

    The absolutely absurd policy of importing, millions of people from many cultures, created the world’s largest economy, with the world’s most powerful military!

    Moreover, we have miles of empty beaches around the world’s longest shoreline?

    The rest of what you raise is the result of public policy and just cramming more and more folks into overcrowded cities when what is required is decentralization,and down to government!

    Even so, I agree in principle with the idea that we should decide who we allow in and the manner of their arrival!

    And down to me Mallah and all his contempories would be offered a one-way ticket to almost anywhere that wanted them, say Qatar, which is apparently short of building labourers. Alan B. Goulding.

    Comment by Alan B. Goulding — July 1, 2015 @ 10:14 am

  25. “Hi shocka and thanks for the email.”

    I haven’t sent you any email, so if you received any from “Shockadelic”, it wasn’t me.

    “the world’s largest economy” was, like Australia, mostly “created” by one group, the British settlers and their descendents.
    They also, like Australia, had ethnically restricted immigration for most of their history.
    Again, you are leaning on the crutch of past realities/accomplishments, not justifying continuing immigration *today*, in 2015.

    The silver medallist (Japan) is one of the most homogenous nations on Earth and has almost no immigration.
    They too once had a powerful military, but that didn’t work out so well.

    Where there are empty beaches, they are empty for a reason.
    There’s no infrastructure nearby (and never will be).
    And possibly lethal animals in the water.

    “what is required is decentralization, and down to government!”

    The government can’t force people, native or immigrant, to live in location X.

    People naturally flock to where the opportunities/facilities are, and these increase exponentially in larger population centres.
    There’s no point in policies that defy human instincts/nature or logic/practicalities.
    Such “engineering” attempts just create more headache than they supposedly solve.
    People flock together and prefer to flock with their own “kind”. Get over it.

    Yes, there’s only 4 ethnic groups that can possibly pose any threat, so let’s deport them and keep piling in millions more of the other 6,996 ethnic groups that exist in the world.

    It’s not any particular group that is the “problem”.
    The total cumulative long term effect of millions of people from thousands of disparate unrelated ancestries/cultures that will make our society disintegrate.
    There is nothing to hold it all together.
    Being a “species” means nothing. If it did, there wouldn’t be 7.000* different types of humans.
    (*Yes the number is not exact. Nobody knows the correct one.)
    This patchwork quilt will have too many holes and unravelling seams to keep anyone warm.

    Comment by Shockadelic — July 1, 2015 @ 11:02 am

  26. I have an arrangement with lethal marine species I don’t go in the water and they don’t come on the beach!

    If we were different species interbreeding wouldn’t be possible let alone lives saved with blood transfusions from “others”!
    I don’t know if you ever served in the military but if you did you would understand we are all just cobbers and not this or that race!

    The Japanese got belted because they picked the wrong side rather than the side of the angels?

    And they underestimated the industrial might of the world’s most powerful “migrant” built economy!
    Yes the brits started it but were added to by the irish the scandinavians the italians the germans and the Chinese and the Japanese.
    Interestingly, the Japanese are not as homogeneous as you might think but are a hybrid race emerging from chinese and korean ancestry.

    I have no time for narcissistic white supremacists/hitler youth, or the so called master race shocka, given the harm all are responsible for!
    Alan B. Goulding

    Comment by Alan B. Goulding — July 1, 2015 @ 12:14 pm

  27. “I have no time for narcissistic white supremacists/hitler youth, or the so called master race shocka, given the harm all are responsible for!”

    Neither do I.

    Australians, the ethnic group, simply are White.
    Just like Bushmen aren’t.

    That is not a value judgement.
    Our right to exist and perpetuate ourselves as a people/culture has nothing to do with whether we are “superior” or not.

    What have the African Bushmen achieved?
    Where is their list of grand accomplishments?

    Does that invalidate them as a distinct people/culture (BTW, quite unrelated to the dominant African ethnic continuum)?
    No, their existence/perpetuation does not need justification.
    And nor does it invalidate Australians if we had accomplished zilch in 200+ years.

    Yes, the Japanese descend from mainland Asian migrations (another “nation of immigrants”, displacing the indigenous Ainu!).
    Yet, their present population is predominantly homogeneous.
    Those strains, much like among Australians, blended into a *new* distinct type.

    “the brits started it but were added to by the irish the scandinavians the italians the germans and the Chinese and the Japanese”

    The Irish were British until 1921.
    I, like most people, consider the British Isles population as one, at least in terms of *Australian* history.

    All those English and Celtic peoples, along with a tiny smidgen of other Europeans, merged together into a *new* people.
    That new people was still biologically/morphologically and culturally European (a.k.a. White).
    That is neither good nor bad, superior or inferior.
    It just is.

    The “harm” coming in our society will not be caused by racism (Hitler Youth), but it’s alleged “opposite”: regimented, comply-or-else anti-racism.
    The willful bulldozing of any distinct “Australian-ness”.

    Another utopian fantasy that requires brainwashing, bullying and brutality to sustain itself.
    The Anti-Nazis ARE the Nazis now.

    In the military, you may all be “cobbers”, but you are also all faceless, replaceable “cannon fodder”.
    Not the most useful model for civilian society.

    And all troops no doubt led by a White Australian.
    In the rare instance otherwise, the Aussies secretly or not-so-secretly resent the upstart “other”.

    Homogenous troops bond easier.
    Why do you think most armies had ethnically-based troops until very recently?
    Even the South had *Black* Confederate troops during the American Civil War!

    Once upon a time, human nature was just accepted.

    Comment by Shockadelic — July 1, 2015 @ 1:21 pm

  28. Put a Bushman and a city based white fella in the African savannah; and ask them to live on their wits for a couple of weeks; and see who survives more than just a couple of days!

    So much for white superiority!

    If the south had black troops during the civil war so did the north; a point which proves little except some folks can be their own worst enemies or believe lies!?

    I mean the average German thought the sun shone out of Herr Hitler and followed him and his white superiority Jew hating message like the betrayed blind fools they were!?

    And my Irish granny thought that the Irish were celts not brits, a euphemism for english given they were invaded as was Scotland and colonised by the english!

    The english also colonised India, does that make the indian nation british or more importantly, english?
    Alan B, goulding.

    Comment by Alan B. Goulding — July 2, 2015 @ 1:32 pm

  29. Why do I bother?
    It’s like talking to brain damaged retarded coma victims.

    No, India was never part of “The United Kingdom of Great Britain and Ireland”.
    Ireland was.

    Keep ranting about things I never brought up and don’t give a toss about if you like.

    You won’t be so smug when the sh!t hits the fan.
    Your pale skin won’t save you from your published-for-posterity forked tongue.

    You and Agent Minns won’t find “cobbers” on either side of the battlefield.
    To the Aussies, you will be a self-declared enemy.
    To the “other”, just another White man.

    Comment by Shockadelic — July 2, 2015 @ 2:22 pm

  30. The Irish never thought so and the Scots very nearly won their freedom in a peaceful election.

    Just because the average pom thinks that they all part of a united kingdom doesn’t make it so, any more than migrant West Indians are suddenly english!

    The British Isles may look homogeneous to a Russian from St Petersburg merely here to stir sh!t, or a know it all pommy git;who does it automatically; but let me assure you the oppressed Celts don’t generally share your view, nor the official suppression of their native tongue.

    Change is inevitable, in the fifties one could walk down Piccadilly and see miles of gentlemen wearing bowlers and carrying the obligatory brolly; now they’re an oddity, but still speak a good deal more politely than the white supremacist rubbish that bolted here with the advent of massive West Indian and Pakistani migration?

    But only after they’d killed off their own manufacturing industries by demands for money for bugger all. Something referred to as the british disease.

    Nowadays the Germans and Italians we all fought against seem to get far better treatment in England than the average Aussie who needs a visa and a work permit!

    And so what if you haven’t raised a topic, how does that prevent others from doing so, oh master of the universe?
    And please don’t bother, the strange reverberating echo effect coming from a typically empty pommy head is putting me off my tucker.

    Comment by Alan B. Goulding — July 3, 2015 @ 11:14 am

  31. “typically empty pommy head”

    I don’t know what you are, but I’m Australian and that’s the arena under discussion.

    I’m not referring to British identities from their perspective, but from *ours*.

    How many Australians (do you even know any?) even know if their ancestors were Irish or English or even Manx!
    The only clue to many might be their surname, but even that’s nothing definitive.

    All those ancestries *merged* together to become “Australian”.
    But that was not a hybrid of ALL and EVERY type of human, only Europeans.

    The empty heads here are those that want their foot in two camps.
    Acknowledging some ethnic groups are problematic, or that machines are gradually making human labour redundant, or that manufacturing is dead, that populations are concentrated in cities, but refuse to see the broader consequences of the whole shebang.

    “any more than migrant West Indians are suddenly english!”

    Oh so now you admit it.
    Immigrants are not and CANNOT be “us”.
    They will always be “them”, they know it, you know it and I know it. So cut the crap.

    “Change is inevitable … gentlemen wearing bowlers”

    These are superficial trends and fashions, not the fundamental character/nature of a people/culture.

    And those changes were *chosen* by the gentlemen in question.
    The changes introduced by foreigners are not something *we* are choosing.
    It is change imposed on us.

    “the white supremacist rubbish that bolted here with the advent of massive West Indian and Pakistani migration?”

    And the more you add, the more reaction there will be.
    Every action has an equal and OPPOSITE reaction.
    “Tolerance” creates “intolerance”. In EQUAL measure.

    “Nowadays the Germans and Italians we all fought against seem to get far better treatment in England”

    Again, because of clueless utopian nonsense (the EU).

    “And so what if you haven’t raised a topic, how does that prevent others from doing so”

    Because you and Agent Minns are implying *I* support Hitlerian extremes, when I am advocating a cessation of immigration precisely to AVOID the impending conflict.

    If it continues, war is inevitable. Social stresses will make life unlivable.

    If it stops, a new *equilibrium* emerges, everyone calms down and the impact actually *declines* over time (through natural attrition: about a quarter of “permanent” immigrants emigrate back out again and about half are too old to have children, meaning no permanent impact on demography).

    Now can you imagine Hitler SCREAMING that?

    Comment by Shockadelic — July 3, 2015 @ 12:37 pm

  32. No impact shocka?Who is to pay the social benefits we all of us need from time to time or as pension super subsidies,negative gearing, family trust, tax breaks

    We need immigration in the here and now to enable all that to continue in this vast empty land! The real threat to social cohesion is unemployed youth with MBA’s and PHD’s and no prospects?

    And the usual cadre of activist purveyors of hate to spur on the unrest until we become a black and white nation divided against itself?

    It must be such a comfort shocka, to know you’re always right!?
    Alan B. Goulding.

    Comment by Alan B. Goulding — July 6, 2015 @ 10:37 am

  33. Alan B. Goulding “Who is to pay the social benefits.. We need immigration in the here and now to enable all that to continue in this vast empty land!”

    Taxation is derived from income, not head count.
    A one-person business can generate millions in income, and therefore taxes.

    If your argument were valid, why would be get so many Chinese and Indian immigrants?
    Their homelands have humongous populations, so “logically”, should have far more economic opportunities than this “empty” land.

    The only “empty head” in this conversation is yours.

    Comment by Shockadelic — July 6, 2015 @ 11:59 am

  34. 95% of corporate Australia have offshored their operations, taking their profits and tax liabilities with them and given a ratio of taxpayers to beneficiaries/government obligations, we need to keep importing taxpayers just to keep the whole thing manageable!

    Having run several businesses I know that piling up profit on profit is just not as simple as you make out, with lots doing it tough in today’s economic climate, with consequent tax revenue way down!

    And besides,our immigration policy is based on importing essential or missing skills!

    As Craig Minns observed, I can see you’ve given this matter considerable thought!?
    Alan B. Goulding.

    Comment by Alan B. Goulding — July 7, 2015 @ 11:08 am

  35. Just how deep does your rabbit hole go?

    “95% of corporate Australia have offshored their operations”

    Well, *who* do you think is (supposedly) employing all those immigrants?
    Jake’s Mowing?

    The solution is to change tax rules, not import millions of extra people (who will be employed by the tax avoiders).

    “our immigration policy is based on importing essential or missing skills!”

    If only!

    So third world countries can train people to do what we can’t train people to do?
    I find that a little hard to believe.

    According to the government’s Settlement Reporting facility, in the past year only 14% of all immigrants were recorded as “skilled”. Slightly less are “humanitarian”.

    35% were classified “family” and a whopping 41% are “unknown”.

    You can bet most of the “unknowns” were not the top of their class.

    If we extrapolate the unknowns from the knowns the breakdown would be:
    58.7% family (not skilled), 17.7% humanitarian (not skilled) and 23.6% skilled.

    So altogether 76.4% of immigrants are NOT chosen for their skills.
    Bury that bulldust and cover it in concrete, please.

    You and Agent Minns are only focused on your narrow concerns and miss the bigger, long-term picture.

    And repeatedly contradict yourselves.
    Now you talk of offshoring, but fail to grasp the consequences.
    That means *fewer* jobs, genius.
    And we already have 700,000 unemployed.
    And you’re happy adding another 85,600 non-skilled *EVERY* year?

    You and Agent Minns are the ones who haven’t given this much thought.

    Comment by Shockadelic — July 7, 2015 @ 1:52 pm

RSS feed for comments on this post.

Sorry, the comment form is closed at this time.