As far as I can tell from the news reports, Julia Gillard wasn’t subjected to any actual violence today (unless you count being dragged to the car by her coppers), but we’ve never seen a Prime Minister being dragged by security like that before. It is reasonable to infer that there was a serious risk that the crowd might turn violent.
One thing I find really disturbing is the rush by some to excuse the protesters’ intimidating conduct. As can be seen on this thread on facebook, some feel the violence is justified because of the treatment of aborigines in the past.
They have been badly treated. That is inarguable. They lost a whole continent. From time to time they were murdered or assaulted when they wouldn’t co-operate and, on occasion, just for the hell of it. Whatever spin you put on the removal of children from aboriginal families, however well intentioned it may have been in a few cases, the trauma of such systematic removal caused long term scars.
All of that is true, but we aren’t at war. We are, now, a nation. A nation is a settlement amongst its citizens. You don’t get to be part of a democratic nation and, at the same time, claim the right to violent reprisals against that nation for past wrongs.
The other disturbing factor is the sense of right in the protesters. The protest was said to have been motivated by the remarks of Tony Abbott earlier in the day when he suggested the Tent Embassy outside Parliament House should be closed. What were his incendiary words? Well here is how SBS reported them:
Tensions boiled over on Thursday afternoon following comments Mr Abbott made in Sydney earlier in the day.
Mr Abbott said he understood why the tent embassy was set up “all those years ago”.
“I think a lot has changed for the better since then,” he told reporters.
“I think the indigenous people of Australia can be very proud of the respect in which they are held by every Australian.
“I think a lot has changed since then, and I think it probably is time to move on from that.”
So, hardly the stuff of rabble rousing, but according to the founder of the Tent Embassy, Michael Anderson, they amounted to inciting racial riots. Really?
The reaction to those words, which are obviously measured (whether or not they are correct) was to surround a building at which outstanding citizens were being honoured and intimidate those within. The point is obvious: disagree with us and the threat of violence is there.
It is not enough to say that Abbott’s comments re-opened old wounds and that indigenous Australians were so badly treated in the past that they are entitled to act violently. The logical extension of that argument is that they are entitled to continue to act violently until the score is evened up, at which point, it’s a free-for-all and we can punch the crap out of each other.
Update: It is encouraging to see that the behaviour of the mob has been roundly condemned by a number of aboriginal leaders
Well put Graham. I’m no big fan of Abbott but agree that to cause his comments incendiary is frankly, ridiculous. This kind of behaviour is unacceptable under any circumstances and the only cause damaged here today was their own…
Comment by Damien Buckley — January 26, 2012 @ 8:15 pm
With emotions running high every Australia Day, Abbott should really know by now when to bite his political tongue. Having watched his press conference early this morning including comment on the tent embassy and its relevance you wonder if the guy was set up or was setting up, some kind of sick altercation to suit his agenda. Clearly he provoked the kind of media comment that hurt the indigenous people with whom he claims affinity. Why the Coalition wants a snide cunning insensitive leader when Australia so desperately needs the opposite defies belief.
Comment by Cathy — January 26, 2012 @ 8:28 pm
Rubbish Graham. There was no threat of violence from the protesters. It is the usual response to black people and their supporters demonstrating. Call in the riot police. Either of them could have come out and spoken to the crowd instead of getting Sergeant Wedgie and his crew to force a path through protesters. And actually it is time to move on is nudge nudge wink wink nothing to get worried about, is it. After all Billy McMahon didn’t do that in 1972 to the Embassy did he. And where or when did Aboriginal people cede sovereignty to non-aboriginal people? This nonsense about a democratic nation hides the fact Australia is built on the genocide of Aboriginal people and that continues to today.
Comment by John Passant — January 26, 2012 @ 10:16 pm
John and Damien, I should point out that the post is written by me (Nick Ferrett), not Graham.
John, there must have been something about the situation which moved the police to act the way they did. That footage is unprecedented and it’s hardly the first time that a political leader has encountered – shall we say – enthusiastic protestors. If it had happened before, I might be inclined to think that it was an over-reaction, but it’s something new.
The “nonsense” about a democratic nation hides nothing. It is what we are. It can’t function on the basis that one section of the citizenry retains a right to act violently on the basis of past wrongs.
Comment by Nick — January 26, 2012 @ 10:32 pm
Suggest you look at the footage John. They were banging on the windows of the restaurant and they chased the car down the road banging on that. There wasn’t just a threat of violence, there was violence.
Cathy, I saw what Abbott said and how he said it. It wasn’t provocative, and I don’t see how he could have predicted the violent behaviour, and even if he could have why should that stop him saying what he believes to be the truth. We don’t live in a country where brown shirts rule, not last time that I looked.
Comment by Graham — January 26, 2012 @ 10:45 pm
Oh, black people protesting. Call in the cops. Violence? A bit of banging on the glass and a person slapping the car. Wow. Bring in the riot police. Drive a wedge of cops through the protesters. Assault them. No charges laid, and ACT cops say uncategorically none will be. So much for the lies about protester violence.
‘What happened today is the sort of protest that should greet Gillard and Abbott wherever they go. It shows you how divorced from ordinary people Gillard and her Labor Party are that instead of coming out and talking to the protesters, she got her hired goons to attack them. I guess when you don’t have any case to make for having bettered Aboriginal lives then you need to use force rather than reason.’
http://enpassant.com.au/?p=12131
Comment by John Passant — January 26, 2012 @ 11:19 pm
Where were your condemnations when a video of an Occupy Melbourne woman being sexually assualted by the police -ie stripped down to her underwear and left in the park -was posted on the net?
Comment by John Passant — January 26, 2012 @ 11:22 pm
John, I wasn’t aware of the Occupy Melbourne story. Perhaps you could post a link?
Comment by Nick — January 26, 2012 @ 11:34 pm
You’re right John, there should be arrests. The fact that there aren’t confirms these people that they have licence to be violent.
I don’t follow your criticism about the incident with the Occupy Woman. I’m not aware of the incident. You’re not suggesting that to be eligible to criticise one very public event of wrong-doing one has to post a blog on every event of wrong-doing, whether publicly known or not?
Comment by Graham — January 27, 2012 @ 7:16 am
John’s referring to this:
http://www.news.com.au/top-stories/police-criticised-after-tent-dress-torn-off-occupy-protester/story-e6frfkp9-1226215166929
The girl who is the subject of the story got the result she was after. It’s an example of a well worn demonstrators’ strategy: tempt the police into doing something to you then scream when they’re stupid enough to do it.
It’s the sort of thing that’s done precisely so that those who sympathise can use it as an example of police brutality in arguments such as this one.
Comment by Nick — January 27, 2012 @ 7:35 am
So graham , you are in a better position to judge whether there should be arrest than the cops on the ground. Maybe you should sit as judge and jury too. Oh, you already have.
This lynch mob mentality of the media and sections of Australian society is disgraceful.
As to the sexual assault of the Occupy Melbourne protester, look up the video. Perhaps Google tent woman stripped Melbourne Occupy. That might work. Your silence just shows first that the main stream media are selective in their reporting and outrage and second their hypocrisy. A sexual assault crime by cops goes unreported and a non-event, a non-crime is shouted out as a riot.
Black people protesting. Oh no. Uppity blacks. Quick, call out the white cops.
It wasn’t a wild protest. It wasn’t a riot. It wasn’t thuggery. That is part of the racist stereotyping by the one percent and their media and part of the wider agenda to deepen even further the oppression of aboriginal people. ACT Police have said there will be no arrests. No arrests. Why not? Because there was no criminal activity (except on the part of the cops.)
Comment by John Passant — January 27, 2012 @ 7:46 am
So now you defer to the police John? Well I guess that settles the question of the woman in the tent. The police are in the best position to judge what to do so she deserved it?
I think you have left the outrage keylock down on your computer.
Let’s come back to the real world where if you beat-up on the Prime Minister and the Opposition Leader at an official function it is news, and if you beat-up on someone less prominent, it may or may not be, depending on what competition there is from other news and how newsworthy they are.
Comment by Graham — January 27, 2012 @ 7:55 am
We all have to realise that this is all part of a big show to divide the nation and keep us distracted from the really important issues.This was a win for both Gillard and Abbott.Politics is like the World Wrestling Championships.It is all a big show and behind closed doors, both parties buddy up for a drink and make deals.
The Occupy movements use non-violence
as a means of protest.The Aborigines need to learn from this.
Both political parties with the media use race,class,income to divide and conquer.Both parties are controlled by an elite of corporate interests.They only argue about relatively insignificant things that don’t empower us.On the really important issues that subjugate us,they agree.
G Edward Griffin argues that we should be debating Collectivism V’s Individulism.All political philosphies today believe in “Collectivism” ie the rights of the individual must be sacrificed for the greater good.This notion of collectivism however only applies today to a few elite who in reality are the 1% who have 40% of the wealth.Who got the bailouts? Who continue to print money and keep so called sovereign countries in debt? This collective of elites got ordinary hard working people’s money to bail them out of scams they created themselves.
So keep arguing people,the elites are laughing all the way to the bank.
Comment by Ross — January 27, 2012 @ 8:17 am
Well said Ross. Do people have a right to protest? Yes Did the indiginous protesters have a right? Yes
Are people entitled to voice an opinion? Yes
Was it right for the police to react the way they did?No
Any video footage can be edited and alter the total facts of any incident. From all the edited footage shown in the news broadcasts depicted violence and aggression by both the indinginous protesters and the police. The police violence was far worse than the indiginous protesters. In my opinion some members of the police, by their aggressive actions provoked the outcome which led to violence.
Once again it has been demonstrated that the peoples rights have been eroded and we have been reduced to the ranks of Slavery and the governments, politicians, corporations, banks, police etcetera are the slave masters.
Research, Learn and Understand the you will wake up to where we are today and realise how our rights have been eroded and will continue to do so until we the people unite and say no more.
Comment by Duanne — January 27, 2012 @ 9:30 am
Gotta love En Passant’s myopic world view – no way the tent ambassadors could ever do wrong, always the whiteys and their copper mates at fault. If the other voices in the Aboriginal constituency are to be believed the ambassadors are simply an embarrassment to their race. The “Embassy” does nothing except take up public land better applied to the propagation of hedges. Economic self-sufficiency does not fall from the sky John, it is earned. Please grow up.
Comment by Milburn — January 27, 2012 @ 10:05 am
Milburn is it wrong for people to protest for their rights?
In all the video footage, as shown by the news media, I never noticed or heard any of the protesters accusing the whiteys as you put it, if I am wrong please point it out.
Most of the violence was portrayed by the police in the video footage. Even Julia Gilliard tripping.
The Aboriginal people have a right to have an “Embassy” and if it is a problem being where it is, offer them an appropriate site for their consideration.
No I am not aboriginal I am a whitey and I believe in peoples rights.
Comment by Duanne — January 27, 2012 @ 11:06 am
Oh Duanne, come on. I think it’s pointless debating what ACTUALLY happened yesterday as neither of us were there. Nor was passa as far as I know. The Embassy has really had its day in my view and now suffers from relevance deprivation. And the vehemence of the response to Abbott’s sound bite just drove home the point. They’d be better off quietly removing themselves and stop engaging in empty symbolism better left in the 70s. Time to focus on economic self-sufficiency for all, not this sort of nonsense.
Comment by Milburn — January 27, 2012 @ 12:19 pm
When ever these events occur, take careful note to see who the media decides “Indigenous leaders” are. Most if not all of them have their nose stuck in a government trough somewhere.
Comment by Victor — January 27, 2012 @ 1:38 pm
I see 2 separate issues here: (1) the events of yesterday and (2) the utility of the embassy to anyone. The first is still sitting in the surreal zone. Best left to the conspiracy theorists to analyse to death. The second is quite relevant. Sam Watson suggests a permanent memorial or similar structure replace the existing mini-slum. I agree 100% with Sam – see, reconciliation in action – create a permanent display there to remember the embassy when it meant something, putting it in historical context. Then encourage the ambassadors to MOVE ON, physically and emotionally, focus on economic self-sufficiency for themselves, their kids and future generations. But MOVE ON. Please!
Comment by Milburn — January 27, 2012 @ 1:58 pm
Of course, the pursuit of economic self-sufficiency is not as sexy (or easy) as screaming at people and slapping your palms against a restaurant window, then mythologising via the blogosphere afterwards. But hopefully at least 1 “ambassador” feels embarrassed enough today to walk away and try something constructive for their people.
Comment by Milburn — January 27, 2012 @ 2:21 pm
You can well understand why it all went pear-shaped yesterday when some in our media mis-heard and mis-reported Tony Abbott: At 1.06PM yesterday this went up on Sky News http://is.gd/mS3S5k and and at 3.51PM this appeared online courtesy News Limited http://is.gd/1rZFA8 and again via The Age http://is.gd/N2eKId. While there is no excuse for the level of heated aggression we saw that resulted from skewed media reporting, there is equally no excuse for our media to get it so horribly wrong.
Comment by Cathy — January 27, 2012 @ 3:04 pm
If you all want to know who controls the West see;
‘Four Horsemen Behind America’s Oil Wars’ by Dean Henderson.http://www.globalresearch.ca/index.php?context=va&aid=24507
The major shareholders in Royal Dutch Shell,Exxon Mobil,Chevron Texaco,BP Amoco are;Rothschilds,Rockerfellers,Warburg-Controlled Deutsche Bank,JP Morgan Chase.
I think pollies in all parties know their limitations when confronting the powers above.This is why they are impotent and a joke to the public.They have no real power and nor do we.When Obama came here he told Labor to sell Uranium to India,Julia against long held Labor Policy did just that.
This is why politics in the West has become a total farce.Hence to gain liberty and a decent living standards, Occupy Movements around the planet will continue to grow.
I wasn’t at the Aboriginal protest on Aust Day,so I cannot allot blame.Usually there is fault on both sides.I’d say the police were told to be very restrained so as not to embarras our leaders.
We also have to realise that there are mini-elites within the Aboriginal movement making money out of manipulation,just like our masters.This is no longer just an Aboriginal issue.It is affecting a large % of people on this planet.
You should see some of the Video in the USA on the Occupy Protests.The Police violence on peaceful people is digusting.The USA is now virtually a Police State with Obama being the chief offender.
I think we are all in a trance of denial like Germany pre-WW2;our awareness to stop this growing fascism is dulled by disbief,moronic entertainment and long work hours,but still there is hope.
Comment by Ross — January 27, 2012 @ 3:44 pm
Good points Ross. I see you look at things with open eyes and research facts so you can put them in an understandable perspective.
Many people fail to do as you do and research those people will become the losers when the tyranny takes full control then it will be to late for them.
Yesterday, Friday 27 Jan 2012, I watched the ABC 24 hour news channel conduct interviews with all the people involved with the protest on Australia Day.
The interviews were direct telecast so no editing as is usual in news programs.
On listening to the Origin Aboriginal people what they were saying I agreed with. Another thing I noticed they also included the white Australian people and spoke up for us as well, they were not racsists.
Julia Gilliard was interviewed and she said she was angry by the origin aboriginal’s behaviour, indicating that their protest destroyed and infringed the presentation of support and awards to Australian people for outstanding contributions to society. She also she feared for her safety at the time.
Tony Abbot said his comments concerning the tent Embassy which sparked the protest had been misunderstood and blown out of proportion.
The Commander of the Australian Federal Police retracted what he said following the protest on Australia Day when he said NO Charges were pending. Now he says charges will be pending. I believe this is in response to Mark Mcfurtrie saying the would be seeking to have assault charges laid against some of the federal police officers especially an officer with red hair.
My conclusion after listening to all the interviews and watching the video footage of the protest, The protesters were in the right.
They were protesting not just for their rights but for the rights of all Australians.
Comment by Duanne — January 28, 2012 @ 10:11 am
Oh Duanne, you really need to get out more mate. Ross, you need help old chap, keep the alfoil on your head at all times. ;)) Anyway, let’s let the Courts determine who did what hey? Or would you prefer to be judge, jury and executioner? But this all misses the point. See my previous posts re economic self sufficiency. Protest for protest’s sake is just dumb. People spitting on a flag or burning it – dumb, dumb, dumb. Slapping palms on a cafe window, screaming, etc., etc. Achieves? NIL. Listening to the En Passant’s of the World go on about what this impotent rage gains for anyone and you soon get the distinct impression that the ultimate goal of economic self sufficiency is not even remotely on the agenda. More’s the pity.
Comment by Milburn — January 28, 2012 @ 12:02 pm
Milburn when you stick your head in the oven,make sure it is not a micro wave and be sure the al foil inuendeos you level at me ,are not on your head.Unfortunately you are not capable of of real perceptive thought.
Bush brought in the Patriot Act within a month of 911.Obama brought in Preventative Dentention ie even if you are suspected of terrorism can be gaoled indefinelty without legal repesenetation or trial.Now Obama has approved the National Defence Authorisation Act.This means that the US Military can apprehend anyone in the West and gaol them indefinitely without any legal recourse from us or our Govts.
Obama also legalised Assassination by the CIA/MOSSAD on any suspected terrorist.
These are facts which you can all check out.
Duanne; they just don’t want to believe the reality.
Comment by Ross — January 28, 2012 @ 7:54 pm
Yeah Duanne, “they” just don’t “get it” like you and Ross do. It’s a HUGE Government Conspiracy man…, ohh, and the Rothschilds … they’re at the centre of it too…just wait, … it’ll all come out soon, keep digging Ross!!!
Comment by Miburn — January 29, 2012 @ 10:34 am
Milburn, unfortunately for you I do get out and my head is not in the oven. Apparently you are not aware that our courts are now CORPORATE COURTS with Australian Business Numbers. Our common law rights are no longer recognised in the courts. The right to trial by jury now is a privilege and the presiding Magistrate or Judge or an officer of the court determines if he will pemit you the priviledge of a trial by jury.
Please research if you have doubts as to my comment. You may wake up to what is occuring by stealth and you may join the wise people and leave the sheeple mentality behind.
Comment by Gypsy — January 29, 2012 @ 10:36 am
Gypsy Joker??? Dream on…
Comment by Milburn — January 29, 2012 @ 5:48 pm
I note that Milburn does not even make an attempt to disprove the realities of power plays on this planet,just attempted derision and ad hominem.
Comment by Ross — January 30, 2012 @ 5:41 am
Walk me through them Ross, feel free.
Comment by Milburn — January 30, 2012 @ 8:27 am
Now I know this blog is about the tent embassy melee on the 26th but here’s a positive take on the alternative work indigenous Australians are quietly getting on with. This sort of stuff won’t get the bourgeois radical types too excited as it doesn’t give them a place to play hero but it should make anyone else feel like true self determination is a growing reality: http://www.businessspectator.com.au/bs.nsf/Article/Gillard-rich-list-pd20120130-QYR7B?OpenDocument&src=sph&src=rot
Comment by Eddie — January 30, 2012 @ 11:46 am
Milburn.I’m tired of explaining it but once agin for you.The US Constitution prior 1913 said that only Congress should have the power to create new money to equal the productivity of the people.This actually happened here too in Australia,with the Institution of the Commonwealth Bank in 1911.It created from nothing some of the money to equal increases in the nation’s productivity.
IN 1913 Pres Woodow Wilson just before Christmas when most of Congress was on holidays,signed away the right of Congress who represented the people,the power to create new money that equaled their increases in productivity.
This private cartel of banks now had the power to counterfeit the people’s productivity via money and loan it back to them in the form of debt.In 1914 in the USA introduced the income tax act for ordinary citizens,to pay for the debt to private banks who in effect own our increases in productivity.
$
Ever since then Milburn, we have been their debt slaves fighting their wars of imperialism.
As George Carlin says,”It’s a big club and you ain’t in it.” That big club is the billionaire club that steals from us via counterfeiting our currencies.
The US people have borrowed from the US Fed $ trillions to bail out the US Fed’s scams and their mates.They have borrowed from the very criminals who shafted them and then gave it back them in the form of Govt Bonds,ie a promise to pay back money stolen from them!!
We now have an Ex Goldmen Sachs banker in charge of Italy/Greece.There is no democracy or rule of law.Add to this the criminal signing edicts of Obama/Bush that now make the USA a police state.Does someone have to spell it out to you Milburn?
Comment by Ross — January 30, 2012 @ 8:08 pm
Hopefully Milburn will begin to understand, if not he will remain in the flock of sheeple until it is to late and all his rights are removed. The indiginous people have a right to protest as does anyone else if they feel they have a genuine reason. Its not up to any of us to condemn them for voicing their opinion. They have as much right as anyone whether we agree or disagree with them. That is Democracy.
Comment by Gypsy — January 30, 2012 @ 9:37 pm
“The boundaries of legitimate protest”? Did we follow this “legitimate boundary’ when we massacred those native Australians who stood against invasion? Did we play by the rule? Our current rules and laws continue to humiliate and deny them what the rest of us take for granted. The flag burning may annoy us, but what meaning does the flag have for the indigenous communities, other than it being a symbol of British oppression, dispossession, murder and denial of human decency. And we continue to have that British flag taunting our native citizens. And we are soooo enraged by them burning the flag!!. It is OK if our young drape the flag on their bums, sit on them, walk on them at the beach, but burning it is oh so utterly demeaning?
Our Prime minister and Opposition leader are such elevated and divine beings that no one should protest in their presence? Abbott has a right to demand that “they move on” but our Aboriginal people have no right to react? Couldn’t both Abbott and Gillard have gone out and addressed their grievances? Instead they chose to run and blame Aboriginal protesters for the over-the-top behaviors of security personals. And the rest of us continue to blame our Aboriginal people, too. We haven’t changed much from 210 years ago, eh?
The majority of older native Australians may have been docile and peace-loving. The younger, knowledgeable and vibrant native Australians will not be taking the back seat much longer. Let us wake up and do the right thing by the Aboriginal people if we are to value the future of Australia and our international standing.
Comment by Jolly — January 31, 2012 @ 1:55 am
Gypsy & Ross, somewhat off-topic aren’t you? Fractional Reserve Banking the culprit for the Tent Embassy protest? Hmmm, leave it with me. Jolly, if the mining royalties about to be paid to indigenous communities over the next 20 years are any guide, poverty will not be quite so prevalent, and if the Indigenous Chamber of Commerce is to be believed, the future is already being grasped by alot of indigenous folks, particularly the young who are getting jobs, training and experience in some of the boom sectors of our economy. You just won’t see them sitting around at a Tent Embassy yelling about it.
Comment by milburn — January 31, 2012 @ 9:10 am
Milburn,I made no mention of the term “fractional reserve bqnking”.Most people have never heard of these words.You know a lot more than your words reveal.Could you be a banking troll? Does the ugly truth embarrass you?
I think you are batting for the wrong side.It is all related.Aborigines and us (maybe not you)are oppressed by this evil system.Most of them have no idea who is stealing from them and how.
The people’s revolution has begun and in the USA Ron Paul by backing the original US Constitution is leading the way.That constitution also says that only Congress should have the power to create new money.Not private banksters!
Comment by Ross — January 31, 2012 @ 6:25 pm
Deary me Ross, you must spend sleepless nights on all this stuff eh? The link is nebulous (and that’s being kind mate) at best but you keep digging away at it. Meanwhile, (ho hum) the Real World keeps spinning and (hey, what’s this?) indigenous folks are taking advantage of economic opportunities that are falling into their laps care of the mining boom and its off-shoots. So they probably won’t have much spare time to join you and your buddies at the barricades “come the revolution”. Cheerio, M
Comment by Milburn — February 1, 2012 @ 9:16 am
It’s a pity Milburn that the depth of your analysis is defined yet again by ad hominem.The world at the moment is full of your mentality,that is why it is disappearing up its own fundamentals.
Some of the protesting Aboriginals were a bit aggressive.They should not have banged on windows,or harassed people leaving the restaruant.The police did over react a tad.
Why did not Abbott or Gillard try to speak to these people? Their lives were not threatened.
Comment by Ross — February 1, 2012 @ 6:50 pm
As each day arises more of our inalienable rights are diminishing. We are slaves to the CORPORATIONS.
When any of us protest we are labeled as activists and radicals by the many sheeple who fail to see what is occuring in front of their own eyes.
How many of you people actually ask questions and research to find the truth? If you did you would discover that Corporations are eliminating our rights by stealth.
How many of you know or realise all our Australian Governments are registered Corporations on the American Securities Exchange?
When you research and begin to ask questions you may look at people that protest in a different prospective.
You would understand that they are protesting peacefully to reclaim our democratic rights back from the Corporations.
The Aboriginal people have as much right to demonstrate as anyone else does.
Why is it that only lawful protesters are arrested?
The police officers are never arrested when they overstep the mark and use violence on the protesters. WHY?
Are they not assaulting people when they use heavy handed tactics?
Comment by Duanne — February 2, 2012 @ 6:40 am
Ummm, Duanne, can you provide any evidence regarding your proposition: “How many of you know or realise all our Australian Governments are registered Corporations on the American Securities Exchange?” You really need to back these specious claims up if you want to be taken seriously.
Ross, I believe you resorted to ad hom when you labelled me a banking troll. Live by the sword … Anyway, what you trot out as fact is just disconnected nonsense. Truly, take a moment to re-read what you post. It’s embarrassing to say the least.
Comment by Milburn — February 2, 2012 @ 9:09 am
I’m going to close the discussion on this article. It is going around in circles and some of it is getting a bit lunar.
Comment by Graham — February 2, 2012 @ 9:58 am